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anyone remember ?

Discussion in 'VDW' started by rave154, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. Bobajobber

    Bobajobber Gelding

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    Hennessy Cognac Gold Cup (Handicap Chase) - £17474.00 (£5342.00; £2646.00; £1298.00)
    Race 951
    1st Galway Blaze (JGFitzgerald) 9-10-0 MDwyer - 3rd LTO
    2nd Run and Skip (JLSpearing) 7-10-9 SMorhead - 1st LTO
    3rd Door Latch (JTGifford) 7-10-8 RRowe - First Time Out
    4th Glyde Court (FTWinter) 8-10-2 SSherwood - First Time Out
     
    rave154, ArkRoyal and Pitmatic like this.
  2. Bobajobber

    Bobajobber Gelding

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    Race 1058
    Rehearsal Chase - £4409.40 (£1315.20; £627.60; £283.80) - 3 miles GS
    1st Burrough Hill Lad (MrsJPitman) 9-11-12 PTuck (FAV)
    2nd West Tip (MOliver) 8-11-4 AWebber 11/1 (Beaten 0.5 length)

    Race 1243
    SGB Handicap Chase £12505.50 (£3744.00; £1797.00; £823.50) - 3 miles Gd
    1st Door Latch
    (JTGifford) 7-10-0 RRowe 2nd Fav
    2nd West Tip (MOliver) 8-10-7 RDunwoody (FAV)
    3rd Burrough Hill Lad 9-12-7 (3x) P Tuck
     
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  3. rave154

    rave154 Foal

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    Fantastic job there Boba * stares at the screen with blurry eyes*
     
  4. rave154

    rave154 Foal

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    BHL...race 1058 wins as fav, then.. to use vdws term....is whacked up in class AND into a Hcap where he carried a massive 12-7,
    finishing a credible 3rd (considering the weight )... so...

    "BHL..... coming out of Hcap company with 11lb less to carry".... this last sentence.....i could just as easily be describing ....Prominent King.....hmmm
     
  5. OnTheNod

    OnTheNod Colt

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    Yes thats how read it also BHL had to much weight in the h'cap so was an illusion of form to me anyhow, so was well in this race because he had also won the race before, But WL liked Kempton because of 3 previous wins there and his form was fairly constant with the four run this season, my doubt would of been the ground for him, but Kempton is a flat and not testing course so must of stood a chance of levels on the day was BHL second btw.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017 at 10:14 AM
  6. rave154

    rave154 Foal

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    OnTheNod, i agree......a bit confused now

    Boba, thanks muchly again for the form details !
     
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  7. OnTheNod

    OnTheNod Colt

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    I never worked the examples in the books because i had lost interest so never purchased any, mainly because from what i see in the examples in the h'cap book all had so many contradictions.

    Did he give WL as a bet btw! or say to leave the race alone, i did back in jumps back then and i may of took WL ew but it is so long ago i cant remember, that was my main form aspects CDs or similar course form and a few others but they stopped working well after about 1996 and way before that over the jumps, mainly with the wth changes and the amount of racing, and personally i do not think the trainers are as good now either but it is just my view.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017 at 10:11 AM
  8. rave154

    rave154 Foal

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    Yes vdw gave Wayward Lad as a bet, though he did say if the race had been run at Cheltenham "then i would not have wagered on Wayward Lad"...

    now...does that mean....he wouldnt have bet AT ALL?....or.....he simply wouldnt have bet on Wayward Lad and would have bet on another horse? dont know, i suspect the former.
     
  9. OnTheNod

    OnTheNod Colt

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    Well if he says WL was a bet he may of backed it who knows, but BHL could not of been ignored in that race, yes i knew WL was not at his best at Cheltenham or on soft or worse ground, and may myself of left WL that day because of the soft ground, but the price was ok i use to back at 5/1 or better ew most of the time. But horses can put freak runs in when they feel like it plus WL had fair class and thought i love this track and BHL could of been thinking the op on the day but again who knows.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017 at 7:10 PM
  10. Chesham

    Chesham Sire

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    VDW is like a can of sardines, everyone is looking for the key
     
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  11. rave154

    rave154 Foal

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    LOL

    SO, what is your view Chesham, if the KG had been run at Cheltenham and therefore vdw would NOT have backed Wayward Lad as he stated...

    does that mean WL would still "be" a form horse...or not...by the same token, would BHL now BE A form horse due to the course change?

    now, where did i put my key(s) !!!
     
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  12. OnTheNod

    OnTheNod Colt

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    LOL! @Chesham i like fish fingers best with a bit of butter pasted on them, and you cant beat a bit of canned red salmon for taste plus no key needed to open them either.
     
  13. Chesham

    Chesham Sire

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    The same as Pegwell Bay who was a Form Horse but would have been swerved as a bet if conditions changed

    C4CD4A54-A120-474F-80C5-CB2E1316DFC1.jpeg

    Peter Braddocks Book covered the LTO Raven for WL

    He has this to say

    Earlier Wayward Lad had comprehensively beaten Earls Brig (Receiving 4lbs by 22.5 lengths ) when they both made their seasonal debut in a 3m 100 yd chase at Wetherby.

    On this form Wayward Lad would seem clearly superior. However when last seasons form is taken into account, when our three probables were all at the height of their form and fitness, it can be seen there is little to separate them


    He goes on to say at Cheltenham Forgive and Forget had beaten Earls Brig by 4 lengths and Wayward Lad trailing by 14 lengths

    While at Liverpool on the fast tight turning Mildmay Course had reversed this form, beating Earls Brig by 3 lengths (Level weights)

    Braddock goes on to say that between these three runners at level weights was obviously likely to be small

    However, the entry conditions of this race prescribed that Earls Brig should receive a weight concession of 12lbs & 8lbs from forgive and Forget and Wayward Lad


    2A0C6B1B-01D6-46B4-9369-F8CEEE23064D.png
     
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  14. rave154

    rave154 Foal

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    just to ask, has anybody, to your knowledges(s)....ever catorgorically stated what "they" believe was vdws definition of a form horse?
    if so, where can i take a look and peruse stimulate my grey bits (oo err missus)
     
  15. mjay

    mjay Yearling

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    You're never going to eke that out of anyone on a forum, I should know, I've tried!
    See my thread "Form Horses and VDW"

    The best you'll get is oblique hints, the fruit of endless hours poring over mildewed formbooks....

    However if you look at some of the horses VDW categorically stated are form horses that might be a start.
    You could look at the letter "The Class / Form Horse One most likely" from "Ultimate Wheil of Fortune"
    There you will find a whole list of horses he is telling you are/not form horses.

    I have found the relevant form book on ebay last week for under a tenner so that could be a thought?
     
  16. rave154

    rave154 Foal

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    Thanks Mjay,

    tragic to think, that i owned ALL the form books, both flat and NH, from 1985 back to 1962 i think it was.........GRRR

    i also hate asking for favours,

    i have all the vdw booklets etc

    will have a look at ebay now
     
  17. mjay

    mjay Yearling

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    There's a guy who seems to be putting quite a lot of raceform stuff up at the moment.
    I got the 1978 flat the other week but it was quite pricey.
    I was lucky with a cheap superform 1985, but I like their layout.

    I am not going crazy for more though, I'd look more maybe at studying Lee's examples, save cash.
    I have it on good authority they are all "VDW" selections and obviously the Racing Post website is available.
     
  18. rave154

    rave154 Foal

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    Thanks MJay, i will bare this in mind, i have the entire racing post form DB On my pc in a bespoke DB Created by myself,

    this is always the problem, always want to double check the old examples to be sure, but cant find the "form"...... can find the form for
    more recent examples but cant be "sure" youre looking at a genuine "example" of a horse that is a "form horse"

    Damn........if only id kept those form books !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  19. mjay

    mjay Yearling

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    For your convenience, I have listed Lee's selections in date order below:

    Armaturk 16 February, 2002
    Nosam 01 March, 2002
    Persian Waters 03 May, 2003
    Bob's Buster 06 January, 2004
    Fruhlingssturm 08 July, 2004 (not an official selection)
    Pastoral Pursuits 17 July, 2004
    Lets Roll 17 July, 2004
    Frank Sonata 17 July, 2004
    Tropical Lady 18 July, 2004
    Ouija Board 18 July, 2004
    Top Dirham 19 July, 2004
    Peter Paul Rubens 21 July, 2004
    Double Vodka 22 July, 2004
    Byron 27 July, 2004
    Impeller 27 July, 2004
    Mephisto 27 July, 2004
    Darasim 29 July, 2004
    Lochbuie 29 July, 2004
    Corcoran 08 June, 2005
    Countdown 04 July, 2007
    The Illies 15 September, 2007
    Amarna 12 October, 2007
     
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