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Justice for punters org.

Discussion in 'Useful Stuff' started by mick, Feb 21, 2016.

  1. markfinn

    markfinn Mare

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    Morning Mick - nice article - but that's all it is, its just another sad indictment of modern life and could just as easily if not more forcefully and certainly with more facts and figs be made if it was referring to off licences and petrol stations, local post offices etc - the one thing different here is the FOB's and free drinks WC's etc they encourage users to hang around .

    Fruit Machines have long been the companion to the lonely figure in the pub, the person that sometimes seems to be on the edge of society. These FOB's with their incredible endless burn rate and increased offer of quick return will only expand feelings of desperation or isolation when it inevitably goes wrong. Ther has been talk recently of we are moving to a more robotic world and that will effect employment - the case is silently proved your attached article.

    What no one is asking is where is the money coming from ? . The Government is complicit in all this, they are reaping tax revenue on what looks to be an industry that is at least partly funded by crime

    How these betting machines can swallow a day's wage in 10 minutes

    The Church of England demands action on bet machines | Daily Mail Online

    This wont be a popular statement - but until we as a population accept that, if we want to return to country that has a Police presence walking the streets - old fashioned waste collection's - educational school classes of max 25 children that are all the same level on basic three R's etc etc we have to pay be willing to pay less for unearned income but also more income tax - at source not add on tax - we need a transparent system.
     
    mick likes this.
  2. cosmicsports

    cosmicsports Filly

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    Have n't seen this before - maybe because I don't search the forum exhaustively.
    I 'm going to apply for membership.
     
    nicksar and mick like this.
  3. cosmicsports

    cosmicsports Filly

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    Subbed to the justice for punters forum.
    It's interesting, deserves support.
    But it has only 147 members and they seem to have started it some time in Feb 2016.
    It should become further known.
    I wrote some things but they say they publish after moderation so I wait. I don't agree with this modus operandi of theirs - it makes things safe for the forum owner but kills conversation, inhibits participation. It's no good.

    Let me tell you about my experience with right2bet, some 7 years ago:
    This is group was formed in 2008 and they also made the series of comic videos "the renegade ref" - a satire of prohibitionism.
    Right2bet seems to have started in 2008 and they wanted to counter the prohibitionist laws in USA and France.
    But the exchanges were banned in both USA and France.
    I found out about them from a Belgian forum friend in 2009 and became involved but gradually I gained the impression that they were disappointed and eventually they abandoned it, in 2010 or 2011.
    In the brief time I was involved with right2bet I advised them thus:
    You should operate as a centre and appoint bloggers in the various countries to write in the home languages.
    This was also betfair's own system at the time, with regional bloggers writing various sports news and stuff.
    I believe that's the way to maximize the effectiveness of a "justice movement".
    But as I said those guys must have been already pretty disappointed with the result of their effort and there was no continuation of any kind.

    Whether it will have any effect this time remains to be seen.
     
    Bobajobber likes this.
  4. mick

    mick Dam

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    @cosmicsports I was surprised to read your above because i have made many posts on the JFP forum and all have been instant with no wait for moderation.I do agree its a great shame that the forum does not attract more activity. Imo the owners objectives are sound and genuine but they need our support to effectively implement.The last time i spoke with the principle he advised that they now have 1,000 reg supporters but as you say far fewer who use the forum.
     
    Bobajobber likes this.
  5. cosmicsports

    cosmicsports Filly

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    Maybe because it's my first day. I don't know.
    Anyway I counted the forum membership but perhaps overall they are doing better.
    I did make some shares too.

    Anyway, the question the authorities-bookies etc always ask is this "how many are they ?".
    If we are too few then we are "astroturfers".

    My Greek experience of justice for punters was full of "asymmetric events", crash-banged really. We were attacked by both the left and the right (or what seemed to be the left and the right).
     
    Bobajobber and mick like this.
  6. mick

    mick Dam

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    Graeme likes this.
  7. rpjd99

    rpjd99 Colt

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    Graeme, mick and markfinn like this.
  8. mick

    mick Dam

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    Cheers Ray for the above.In the past when i have opened a new on line account free bets or promotions have never been the reason (although fair dues i can understand the attraction for many and why not).What has really piddled me off is being made to jump through hoops when daring to attempt to withdraw winnings.When we open the account and make a deposit via our debit card this is taken with no fuss.The complex frustrating and time consuming verification process used by some when we then ask to withdraw is not needed under Law and is clearly a sad attempt to delay payment.
     
    Graeme likes this.
  9. cosmicsports

    cosmicsports Filly

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    I wonder who can challenge state irregularities.

    In Greece we have this law:
    If your ticket wins over 100 euros for one unit then betting tax is applied.
    It's a crazy law because they don't say 100/1 or 200/1 etc ...
    So in horses the unit is 50 cents and that becomes effectively 200 to 1.
    In football the unit is 25 cents and the tax limit becomes 400 to 1.
    In pick six the unit used to be 3 euros so tax limit 33 to 1 !
    That's crazy because they ought to have said "tax limit is X to 1" which is simple.

    Now a fellow wins 123 euros on Tuesday at Ascot.
    It was the St. James's palace stakes, Barney Roy - Lancaster Bomber (Churchill 4th).
    The decimal price was 41.
    So for 50 cents it is 20.5.
    That's way below tax, but they tax him 3 euros !
    We ask for explanations, eventually they said something to the effect "we tax foreign races when it is over 100 euros, irrespective of units !".
    That on the face of it is irregular because if the punter says "give me two 1.5s" he avoids tax.
    But it is also against the law. It does n't follow from any tax law. I ask has there been a change in the law and did you publish it in your website ?
    No change in the law they said.

    That's illegal.
    I took the issue to the gaming authority EEEP and also to the ministry of finance.
    I wonder what manner of justification they can dream up.
    I know they are capable of cooking up unbelievable justifications, only I can't think of one now.

    They did something similar in 2010, price reduction.
    That time I went to the racing company and said to them "give me the board's decision to read it".
    It was a national company and they needed an addendum to the law to reduce the prices.
    They say no, we 're giving you nothing.
    The funny thing in this is that it was the 8th of November of 2010 and from the 10th of November all public companies had to publish all their board decisions, because the public transparency law took effect.
    The clever lawyer of the racing company said "I caught you for 2 days, now buzz off".
     
  10. markfinn

    markfinn Mare

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    Who knows - you seem to - To me that a looks to be illegal - are companies are blaming the state for unfair reductions and then robbing you by keeping the excess - robbing you not at a gun point but at the take out - our complaints are not currently about government interference taxation, rather lack of government action in forcing the bookmakers to a get rid of the profit enhanced casino machines and get back to day to day unrestricted bookmaking. It look's as though these idea's are now gaining some traction - hopefully with the Tote up for evaluation some jobsworth will see a good opportunity for making a name for himself and actually get some legislation passed.
     
    mick likes this.
  11. cosmicsports

    cosmicsports Filly

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    I will find out.
    You see it's a two-front war.
    Companies doing arbitrary things from one corner, government taxmen in the other corner.
    You 'd be tempted to believe the socialists stand for justice, because they care for the people.
    You 'd also be tempted to think the conservatives stand for justice, because they are for free enterprise and against overtaxation.
    In practice the socialists say "we stand for justice on all matters except this one" and the conservatives say "we take your money".
    And it's not as if you won something and then they tax it.
    If you go out with a pram and you sell swiss knives, alarm clocks, lighters, russian dolls, you stand to make a profit of some 400 euros. So if they take the 100, bust it, you still have 300.
    Here they are taxing losses.
     

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