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Justice for punters org.

Discussion in 'Useful Stuff' started by mick, Feb 21, 2016.

  1. markfinn

    markfinn Mare

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    Morning Mick - nice article - but that's all it is, its just another sad indictment of modern life and could just as easily if not more forcefully and certainly with more facts and figs be made if it was referring to off licences and petrol stations, local post offices etc - the one thing different here is the FOB's and free drinks WC's etc they encourage users to hang around .

    Fruit Machines have long been the companion to the lonely figure in the pub, the person that sometimes seems to be on the edge of society. These FOB's with their incredible endless burn rate and increased offer of quick return will only expand feelings of desperation or isolation when it inevitably goes wrong. Ther has been talk recently of we are moving to a more robotic world and that will effect employment - the case is silently proved your attached article.

    What no one is asking is where is the money coming from ? . The Government is complicit in all this, they are reaping tax revenue on what looks to be an industry that is at least partly funded by crime

    How these betting machines can swallow a day's wage in 10 minutes

    The Church of England demands action on bet machines | Daily Mail Online

    This wont be a popular statement - but until we as a population accept that, if we want to return to country that has a Police presence walking the streets - old fashioned waste collection's - educational school classes of max 25 children that are all the same level on basic three R's etc etc we have to pay be willing to pay less for unearned income but also more income tax - at source not add on tax - we need a transparent system.
     
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  2. cosmicsports

    cosmicsports Colt

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    Have n't seen this before - maybe because I don't search the forum exhaustively.
    I 'm going to apply for membership.
     
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  3. cosmicsports

    cosmicsports Colt

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    Subbed to the justice for punters forum.
    It's interesting, deserves support.
    But it has only 147 members and they seem to have started it some time in Feb 2016.
    It should become further known.
    I wrote some things but they say they publish after moderation so I wait. I don't agree with this modus operandi of theirs - it makes things safe for the forum owner but kills conversation, inhibits participation. It's no good.

    Let me tell you about my experience with right2bet, some 7 years ago:
    This is group was formed in 2008 and they also made the series of comic videos "the renegade ref" - a satire of prohibitionism.
    Right2bet seems to have started in 2008 and they wanted to counter the prohibitionist laws in USA and France.
    But the exchanges were banned in both USA and France.
    I found out about them from a Belgian forum friend in 2009 and became involved but gradually I gained the impression that they were disappointed and eventually they abandoned it, in 2010 or 2011.
    In the brief time I was involved with right2bet I advised them thus:
    You should operate as a centre and appoint bloggers in the various countries to write in the home languages.
    This was also betfair's own system at the time, with regional bloggers writing various sports news and stuff.
    I believe that's the way to maximize the effectiveness of a "justice movement".
    But as I said those guys must have been already pretty disappointed with the result of their effort and there was no continuation of any kind.

    Whether it will have any effect this time remains to be seen.
     
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  4. mick

    mick Dam

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    @cosmicsports I was surprised to read your above because i have made many posts on the JFP forum and all have been instant with no wait for moderation.I do agree its a great shame that the forum does not attract more activity. Imo the owners objectives are sound and genuine but they need our support to effectively implement.The last time i spoke with the principle he advised that they now have 1,000 reg supporters but as you say far fewer who use the forum.
     
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  5. cosmicsports

    cosmicsports Colt

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    Maybe because it's my first day. I don't know.
    Anyway I counted the forum membership but perhaps overall they are doing better.
    I did make some shares too.

    Anyway, the question the authorities-bookies etc always ask is this "how many are they ?".
    If we are too few then we are "astroturfers".

    My Greek experience of justice for punters was full of "asymmetric events", crash-banged really. We were attacked by both the left and the right (or what seemed to be the left and the right).
     
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  6. mick

    mick Dam

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  7. rpjd99

    rpjd99 Colt

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  8. mick

    mick Dam

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    Cheers Ray for the above.In the past when i have opened a new on line account free bets or promotions have never been the reason (although fair dues i can understand the attraction for many and why not).What has really piddled me off is being made to jump through hoops when daring to attempt to withdraw winnings.When we open the account and make a deposit via our debit card this is taken with no fuss.The complex frustrating and time consuming verification process used by some when we then ask to withdraw is not needed under Law and is clearly a sad attempt to delay payment.
     
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  9. cosmicsports

    cosmicsports Colt

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    I wonder who can challenge state irregularities.

    In Greece we have this law:
    If your ticket wins over 100 euros for one unit then betting tax is applied.
    It's a crazy law because they don't say 100/1 or 200/1 etc ...
    So in horses the unit is 50 cents and that becomes effectively 200 to 1.
    In football the unit is 25 cents and the tax limit becomes 400 to 1.
    In pick six the unit used to be 3 euros so tax limit 33 to 1 !
    That's crazy because they ought to have said "tax limit is X to 1" which is simple.

    Now a fellow wins 123 euros on Tuesday at Ascot.
    It was the St. James's palace stakes, Barney Roy - Lancaster Bomber (Churchill 4th).
    The decimal price was 41.
    So for 50 cents it is 20.5.
    That's way below tax, but they tax him 3 euros !
    We ask for explanations, eventually they said something to the effect "we tax foreign races when it is over 100 euros, irrespective of units !".
    That on the face of it is irregular because if the punter says "give me two 1.5s" he avoids tax.
    But it is also against the law. It does n't follow from any tax law. I ask has there been a change in the law and did you publish it in your website ?
    No change in the law they said.

    That's illegal.
    I took the issue to the gaming authority EEEP and also to the ministry of finance.
    I wonder what manner of justification they can dream up.
    I know they are capable of cooking up unbelievable justifications, only I can't think of one now.

    They did something similar in 2010, price reduction.
    That time I went to the racing company and said to them "give me the board's decision to read it".
    It was a national company and they needed an addendum to the law to reduce the prices.
    They say no, we 're giving you nothing.
    The funny thing in this is that it was the 8th of November of 2010 and from the 10th of November all public companies had to publish all their board decisions, because the public transparency law took effect.
    The clever lawyer of the racing company said "I caught you for 2 days, now buzz off".
     
  10. markfinn

    markfinn Mare

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    Who knows - you seem to - To me that a looks to be illegal - are companies are blaming the state for unfair reductions and then robbing you by keeping the excess - robbing you not at a gun point but at the take out - our complaints are not currently about government interference taxation, rather lack of government action in forcing the bookmakers to a get rid of the profit enhanced casino machines and get back to day to day unrestricted bookmaking. It look's as though these idea's are now gaining some traction - hopefully with the Tote up for evaluation some jobsworth will see a good opportunity for making a name for himself and actually get some legislation passed.
     
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  11. cosmicsports

    cosmicsports Colt

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    I will find out.
    You see it's a two-front war.
    Companies doing arbitrary things from one corner, government taxmen in the other corner.
    You 'd be tempted to believe the socialists stand for justice, because they care for the people.
    You 'd also be tempted to think the conservatives stand for justice, because they are for free enterprise and against overtaxation.
    In practice the socialists say "we stand for justice on all matters except this one" and the conservatives say "we take your money".
    And it's not as if you won something and then they tax it.
    If you go out with a pram and you sell swiss knives, alarm clocks, lighters, russian dolls, you stand to make a profit of some 400 euros. So if they take the 100, bust it, you still have 300.
    Here they are taxing losses.
     
  12. markfinn

    markfinn Mare

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    upload_2017-7-2_14-6-26.png
     

    Attached Files:

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  13. blackcat

    blackcat Mare

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    Hi @mick I'll join that forum today,have u read Geoff banks article today,made a great pt said if u had three people standing in front of the three same packet of crisps and one was 40p one 60 and the other person couldn't buy one at all would u think it was fair!!
     
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  14. mick

    mick Dam

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    A fair comment except that based on my personal experiences Dear Geoff does not always practice what he preaches.To take his above example Geoff would sell me half a packet at 60p and the remainder at 75p being very aware that i would not buy at those prices but still being able to claim that he did not refuse to sell.!

    Glad you are joining JFP the more the better.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
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  15. blackcat

    blackcat Mare

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    thanks @mick have joined friend and forum, just waiting for access. ive also created an account with mr banks!! we shall see.
     
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  16. cosmicsports

    cosmicsports Colt

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    It's a fact of life that punters don't like to become proactive in the face of the various injustices taking place, financial, sports integrity related and other.
    It is strange when one sees trade unions going on strike for such things as "solidarity with Nicaragua" and when one also sees huge processions of football fans in the streets if their team fails to deliver the goods during the transfer window.

    The political parties are also hostile, not only those with communistic beliefs who are naturally hostile but all.
    UK is something of an exception. We have the queen's stables, also Winston Churchill who said he wanted to see his horse first and bother about the war later. In recent years Robin Cook with his daily racing article in the Scotsman and Tony Blair with his famous broadcasted treble accumulator.
    In other countries it's a shame for a politician to have any sort of involvement. Have you ever seen a US president at the Kentucky derby ? Messrs Macron-Sarcozy at Longchamps ?
    But in UK too things seem to be problematic, because the betting companies are allowed to do as they please.
    They should n't really, because they are handling our money. They do not make something by themselves, sell it and therefore claim the absolute freedom to price it as they like.

    It's difficult to expect any improvement.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
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  17. mick

    mick Dam

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    Punter apathy plays into the bookmakers hands.Its difficult to be sure but i suspect that the numbers prevented via punitive restriction are now into six figs and growing.If just 10% of those came together via JFP and acted collectively then bigger and more effective waves would be made.But even if my estimate is correct its still only a small minority of the millions who bet and imo we should also be attempting to get these on board.The message being you could be next.

    During the past 18 months on several occasions JFP have had TV company's pull out late Re running coverage of what is going on and this has been down to Bookmaker influence.Everyone now talks about how the Books own the RP from afar but there powers extend to many non racing areas of the media and it is only punter power via numbers which will or would negate this.
     
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  18. cosmicsports

    cosmicsports Colt

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    RP has become like amateur site.
    Either that or they could n't pay for site maintenance and they had to hire a cheap firm.
    ATR too who rennovated their site two years ago, made it worse than it was (!) but not as bad as RP did.

    For me the major obstacle seems to be that the political parties always look forward to raise taxes.
    Both types of party behave the same and if you count the reds too, they look forward to close down all the rece tracks and be done with it, if ever in power.
    So the common bloke in the street will never do something hi senses his party bosses won't like.
    Other obstacles are of secondary nature.
     
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  19. blackcat

    blackcat Mare

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    i opened the account with geoff banks last week put 250 in had one bet which lost and now theyve suspended my account due to breach of some promotional offer i never had! you were right @mick
     
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  20. blackcat

    blackcat Mare

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    Good Afternoon,


    Your account with Geoff Banks has been suspended pending an investigation into possible abuse of our terms and conditions, particularly those of our promotional offers. Clause 19.5 of our Terms and Conditions state:


    19.5. Where any term of the offer or promotion is breached or there is any evidence of a series of bets/wagers placed by a customer or group of customers (e.g. where common betting patterns across the same fixture/markets have been identified across accounts), which due to a deposit bonus, enhanced payments, free and risk free bets/wagers, or any other promotional offer results in guaranteed customer profits irrespective of the outcome, whether individually or as part of a group, Geoff Banks reserves the right to reclaim the bonus element of such offers and in Geoff Banks' absolute discretion settle bets/wagers at the correct odds, void the free and risk free bets/wagers or void any bet/wager funded by the deposit bonus. In addition, Geoff Banks reserves the right to levy an administration charge on the customer up to the value of the deposit bonus, free and risk free bet/wager or additional payment to cover administrative costs. Geoff Banks further reserves the right to ask any customer to provide sufficient documentation for Geoff Banks to be satisfied in its absolute discretion as to the customer's identity prior to Geoff Banks crediting any bonus, free and risk free bet/wager or offer to the customer's account.


    You can find full Terms and Conditions of your Geoff Banks account by visiting Geoff Banks. Your account has been suspended and your online account is no longer active. Your account may be reopened on successful completion of our investigation, which will involve a more detailed verification check, to include compliance with Gambling Commission and AML edicts.


    You are required to submit Photo ID (Driving Licence/Passport) and Bank Account Statement showing deposit to Geoff Banks along with your name and address. For further verification we require your address in the form of a utility bill proving your current residential status, which must not be more than 4 months old, and finally your mobile phone utility bill. It would speed up any potential withdrawal requests if you would supply the four requested documents by return of e-mail.


    We thank you for your co-operation here.




    Kind Regards

    David @ Geoff Banks







     
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