• Hi Guest Just in case you were not aware I wanted to highlight that you can now get a free 7 day trial of Horseracebase here.
    We have a lot of members who are existing users of Horseracebase so help is always available if needed, as well as dedicated section of the fourm here.
    Best Wishes
    AR

Tony Peach

mick said:
downey said:
Mick
I have read somewhere that G Hall was in fact VDW, he was trying to stimulate the debate on his methods because it went quiet for a while.
Downey
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Cheers i was unaware of this.I was involved right from the start and speaking as someone who spent much time trying but still failed to successfully interpret the method i do believe that Mr VDW was completely genuine and did achieve the results he claimed.
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Hi Mick

JIB probably summed up the myth about VDW's own success "The story told by VDW about his origins, his circumstances, and his activities are untrue. When he first started writing he was a poor man who had just received a £70k inheritance from his mother which apparently led to his spreading his wings and claiming they were a result of his betting activities.

It is here that the story starts and that truth cannot be reconciled to testimony. On the one hand we have a fellow who clearly has a privileged insight into horse-racing but apparently isn't capable of making it pay.

The abundance and conviction of VDW's writings impress a generation of punters but he seeds them with innumerous lies about his success and resulting affluent lifestyle."

The extract was first posted some years back now and since then Bobba's recent investigations appear that there are major flaws in VDW (G Hall) account of his background and success as a horseplayer.

The Suggestions that VDW put forward for successful punting are sound and were put forward during the 1940's by Robert Saunders Dowst, and American author who demonstrated the link between Class/Consistency and Weight and pace etc, identifying the quitters and those who seem to plod on through beaten horses, deceiving punters into thinking they are consistent and will soon get their head in front on the line, but of course they rarely do.

Good Luck

Chesham
 
Hi Chesham thanks for the above a most interesting if disillusioning (for myself) read.It must be close to 40yrs ago that the first VDW letters where published and imo the fact that this and simular threads on other forums are still very active says plenty.

The approach i use these days to turn a profit utilizes aspects which could be viewed as the complete opposite to what VDW advocated but i still hold the opinion that the guy did punters a great service. :)
 
I'm not saying the results are not true Mick,aftertiming is a wonderful thing...but the whole saga has imo > a whiff of a put up job,and if all true,then I'm a Dutchman...
Punters who enjoyed reading this may also like the Danish version,"The Emperor's New Clothes"
 
mick said:
Hi Chesham thanks for the above a most interesting if disillusioning (for myself) read.It must be close to 40yrs ago that the first VDW letters where published and imo the fact that this and simular threads on other forums are still very active says plenty.

The approach i use these days to turn a profit utilizes aspects which could be viewed as the complete opposite to what VDW advocated but i still hold the opinion that the guy did punters a great service. :)
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Hi Mick

Agree he did many punters a service in pointing out the areas, that might be considered when assessing a race, to see if it was worth investing in, but did them no favours at all with his claim of 29/32 winning bets in a two month period at all sorts of odds. :naughty:

Jock Bingham and few others published their interpretations and one site even calls itself Van Der Wheil. Some months back on the other Forum I posted a rough outline of JIB's Method of rating. By coincidence, a short time later JIB Ratings were suddenly being offered as part of a Service for paying subscribers site, although Worthless, :D if compiling them from non handicaps and even more worthless, if not used as JIB demonstrated and who knew when the Trainer was placing his horse to race against a bunch of Donkeys. The publishing rights to some of the Booklets have also recently been sold on. So a cottage industry out there based on VDW's Claims of riches.

I did read that Jock Bingham took his own life, which was a sad end.

Good Luck

Chesham
 
Chesham said:
Hi Mick

JIB probably summed up the myth about VDW's own success "The story told by VDW about his origins, his circumstances, and his activities are untrue. When he first started writing he was a poor man who had just received a £70k inheritance from his mother which apparently led to his spreading his wings and claiming they were a result of his betting activities.

It is here that the story starts and that truth cannot be reconciled to testimony. On the one hand we have a fellow who clearly has a privileged insight into horse-racing but apparently isn't capable of making it pay.

The abundance and conviction of VDW's writings impress a generation of punters but he seeds them with innumerous lies about his success and resulting affluent lifestyle."

The extract was first posted some years back now and since then Bobba's recent investigations appear that there are major flaws in VDW (G Hall) account of his background and success as a horseplayer.

The Suggestions that VDW put forward for successful punting are sound and were put forward during the 1940's by Robert Saunders Dowst, and American author who demonstrated the link between Class/Consistency and Weight and pace etc, identifying the quitters and those who seem to plod on through beaten horses, deceiving punters into thinking they are consistent and will soon get their head in front on the line, but of course they rarely do.

Good Luck

Chesham
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Hello Chesham,

Nice to see that you are settling in here, its a far quieter and more harmonius.

Just for the record!
VDW's mother died in 1986, some 8 years after VDW started writing to the Sporting Chronicle(which rips holes in JIB's opinion), she owned and run a Bed & Breafast in Lincoln,whilst her son was living Market Harborough


There are lots of opinions out there that are based on little or no evidence,it is also evident that over the years many opinions have changed in some way, including your own, but I think I am right in believing that whatever VDW offered up was by a person who knew exactly what he was talking about, I also believe you would concur with that,irrespective on how it was put across( the method that is).
 
formtheory said:
I am originally from Lincoln and one side of my family's sir name is Hall...... You never know! Ha ha!
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You'll never know unless you start digging, but I can tell you that he has no next of kin.

A certain person who runs a blog is lying when he talks of being in contact with some female who is related through marriage, but it would not be the first lie this chap has given

The seed of JIB's opinion was born on the back of someone's else's investigations, I do not believe this person had investigated well enough and after a while appeared to regret giving such information away, to which a rumour of the Malvern Hills was added to make the dogs chase their tails.

Vdw has a sad personal life and maybe one day, I will offer it up for all to see and understand, but I am still investigating it, so better to offer all facts instead of half a story.
 
Hi Bobba

Agree, Nothing wrong with the Platform that VDW put forward as a method for finding winners. The Malvern Hills is a new one on me, who put that rumour out LOL, according to the search facility I used over 12 months back, he was last registered at an address the Cavaliers would not like.

Enjoyed reading about your session with Tony Peach and enjoying the Forum very much.

Good Luck

Chesham
 
I'm glad you are here Chesham, you add merit to any and every forum,fact!

here is the link:

Code: 
http://community.betfair.com/horse_racing/go/thread/view/94102/27194673/c-van-der-wheil-the-flying-dutchman?pg=1

Same old ,same old, but I remember seeing it mentioned somewhere else and I immediately thought someone was trying to hide the scent,I think even the blog man played it down in a post,I honestly believe he regrets letting the cat out of the bag, others may of contacted VDW and this warned him.
Anyway, serves him right.

I feel obliged to find something out about VDW that was positive, I have found things out that could put him in a bad light, but there are reasons why these particular things happened and I feel it only fair to find more information to bring this into a positive, but we forget that in them days, to not be seen in a particular light would certainly turn you into a curtain mover,I can tell you that VDW was illegitimate and you will understand exactly where I am coming from when I mention that, it can also be embarrasing when filling in marriage certifcates.

Watch this space ;-)
 
Hi Bobba

The Gummy Thread "Time For Great Humility" made me laugh, when John D realised that one individual was using two usernames on the same Thread.

Well done with your research, you have taken it to a new level and I am looking forward to your final conclusion on the real back ground to VDW.

Good Luck

Chesham
 
Chesham,

Was it you that headed up the ' Beat The Bailiff' thread?

My gut feeling it is you and if it was,that was some going.
 
No Bob, Trojan was a guy called Gary. He used to run a small invite only forum that I and Hayzee and I think some others on here were members of. A very smart cookie and nice bloke to boot.

AR
 
arkroyal said:
No Bob, Trojan was a guy called Gary. He used to run a small invite only forum that I and Hayzee and I think some others on here were members of. A very smart cookie and nice bloke to boot.

AR
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Cheers Ark,

A jolly good read that thread.
 
Bobajobber said:
Chesham,

Was it you that headed up the ' Beat The Bailiff' thread?

My gut feeling it is you and if it was,that was some going.
Click to expand...

Hi Bobba

Sorry, not me

Good Luck

Chesham
 
Just for the record!
VDW's mother died in 1986, some 8 years after VDW started writing to the Sporting Chronicle(which rips holes in JIB's opinion), she owned and run a Bed & Breafast in Lincoln,whilst her son was living Market Harborough


There are lots of opinions out there that are based on little or no evidence,it is also evident that over the years many opinions have changed in some way, including your own, but I think I am right in believing that whatever VDW offered up was by a person who knew exactly what he was talking about, I also believe you would concur with that,irrespective on how it was put across( the method that is).
Click to expand...

Hello Bobba,
Interesting titbit about VDW’s personal life there.
I can see the work and research you must have put in and I admire the way you have really stuck at the VDW method.From what you say I can see that you must have advanced some way with it. I certainly agree that whoever wrote the letters and articles “knew exactly what he was talking about”.Part of the problem is the difficulty is finding sufficient time to properly look at a race.What I mean is that I enter all relevant data into an Excel worksheet, after which a considerable amount of number-crunching has to take place. The Excel template which I use is one which I have developed over time, by trial and error.
I think I recall Chesham saying at one point that it can be an advantage to work with a colleague, and this - in my experience - would be worth considering.At the moment anything like this would be impractical as I am looking after somebody full-time.
 
goodlife said:
Hello Bobba,
Interesting titbit about VDW’s personal life there.
I can see the work and research you must have put in and I admire the way you have really stuck at the VDW method.From what you say I can see that you must have advanced some way with it. I certainly agree that whoever wrote the letters and articles “knew exactly what he was talking about”.Part of the problem is the difficulty is finding sufficient time to properly look at a race.What I mean is that I enter all relevant data into an Excel worksheet, after which a considerable amount of number-crunching has to take place. The Excel template which I use is one which I have developed over time, by trial and error.
I think I recall Chesham saying at one point that it can be an advantage to work with a colleague, and this - in my experience - would be worth considering.At the moment anything like this would be impractical as I am looking after somebody full-time.
Click to expand...

Goodlife,

Sorry to here about your circumstances,by all means drop me a line anytime and we can exchange thoughts.
 
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